From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/7/2002 12:33:48 AM | Message Detail

Bayman VS Lei Fang LEGEND: HP = Hi Punch, MP = Mid Punch, LP = Low Punch HK = Hi Kick, MK = Mid Kick, LK = Low Kick adv = Advanced 4m = 4 metres = distance that a move "detects" a wall/object. For comparison, Jann Lee's "big moves" (you know the ones) have a 5m range. This is an attempt to quantify the "potential" for wall/object bonus damage. minor = "minor potential", in terms of getting cliff falls major = "major potential", in terms of getting cliff falls wall stun = the wall-based critical hit stun animation that gives you a free hit Facts: Base damage: -Lei Fang normal holds: 47 -Bayman normal holds: 47 -Lei Fang advanced holds: 60 -Bayman advanced holds: 60 ...this is dead even. What about the enviroment? You know... big cliffs? Bayman can get extra damage off cliffs: -MP (minor) -adv LP, at 5m (major) Lei Fang can get extra damage off cliffs: - MP (minor) - HP (minor) - LK (minor) - adv HP, at 4m (major) - adv LP, at 4m (major) - adv LK (minor) What about the enviroment? You know... wall/objects? Lei Fang can get extra damage off walls/objects: - MP - adv HP, 4m - adv LP, 4m Bayman can get extra damage off walls/objects, for: - MP - adv LP, 5m Jumping kick hold? Lei Fang = yes Bayman = yes ...this is dead even. Parries? Hayabusa = no Lei Fang = Yes... ...she gets a 16 frame advantage. That basically guarantees her a free stun, or a free [bf+P] "shoulder check" that can start wall combos (distance 3m). If you try to punch her further into a corner, she will switch positions with you. If you try to kick yourself out of a corner, she will shove you back in, and then shoulder check you into a wall combo. other considerations: - MK against Lei Fang: whether Lei Fang uses advanced holds or not, be careful using an MK against Lei Fang. She will punish you BIG TIME... ...She has a 15 frame advantage if she holds your MK. AND she gets your back. From behind + 15 frames = free backstun = free juggle, every time. Check the "advanced tech" thread to see an example of how easy she can take 1/2 of your life away, just from a MK and a wall. --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/7/2002 11:13:11 AM | Message Detail

drzero: BTW, how do you buffer from ADV hold to regular hold? Never really 100% figured out the difference of trigger. Huh? Have NO idea what you're asking. Sorry! CountBrass: BTW, I'm still wondering - can Lei Fang get a guaranteed throw attempt after a parry? Inquiring minds want to know. Oh yeah, you asked this before didn't you? After a parry, you CANNOT throw for some reason. There's some "magic whiff" going on. You clearly have the time to do so, because of the frame advantage, but it just doesn't register. Because you don't have their back, just get the damaging hit in. You can stun them, and then try mixup games, but why give them the chance to hurt you? Take the free hit as a bonus - be it a damaging knockback blow, or a move that gets the wall stun (and another free hit). After her MK hold however, a throw is fair game. You have AMPLE time to throw. The best one is her [qcb+Throw], because of the damage, and because she flashes her panties. ^_^ But since you have their back, I find it's often better to combo instead of throw, damage wise. MrKO: Question, though: On a parry, can the opponent counter hold your attempt to capitalize on her advantage, or is it truly a free hit? So long as it's under 16 frames, it's a free hit. She has quite a few of them, but the most obvious ones are stuff like her [f+P] elbow, [f+K], [u+P]. For damage, the best out in the open is probably her [u/f+KKK] (lemme go check), but since that move is SO OVERUSED, IMO, I prefer the [bf+P] shoulder check, just for looks, even though it's slightly less damaging. And if a wall is close enough to get a wall stun, I prefer the [ff+P], which reminds me... ...I edited some stuff from that Lei Fang re-post, but forgot one thing: Parries? Hayabusa = no Lei Fang = Yes... ...she gets a 16 frame advantage. That basically guarantees her a free stun, or a free [bf+P] "shoulder check" that can get bonus wall damage (distance 3m), or a [ff+P] to get the wall stun and start wall combos If you try to punch her further into a corner, she will switch positions with you, and then initiate a wall combo with the [ff+P]. If you try to kick yourself out of a corner, she will shove you back in, and then and then initiate a wall combo with the [ff+P]. ...the [bf+P] is better out in the open, or if you're just out of range for a wall stun (you notice that wall stuns only occur if the attacker is close enough to get the free hit. Also notice that you can only get a wall stun from a ground-hit, not juggle-hit). If in range for a wall stun, a quicker recoverying move like the [ff+P] is better (though it's not the only one). Lei Fang does recover quick enough from a [bf+P] to get the free hit off of the wall stun, but NOT quick enough for anything but a jab. After the wall stun, I usually launch right away with the [u+K]. --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.