From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/10/2002 5:58:58 PM | Message Detail

...60 is guaranteed. But in all likelihood, you can find yourself getting at least 10 more bonus damage, as the knockback is huge. But in close quarters against Gen Fu... you die. 1/2 life gone: Gen Fu is the man. But thats why I submitted him as top tier in the very beginning. heh. His ability to slam people into walls no matter where they're at as long as they're close alone makes him deadly. =P And this is assuming a NORMAL throw - the damage on a hi-counter throw is just too much... ...I'm even thinking of starting to use NON-guaranteed moves like a [d/b f+P], just to get people to flinch with a hold after a parry or airthrow. And then start to bust out his [qcf+Throw] right after... and your ripping like 45% of a normal life bar away before the Hi Counter Throw. ...too much damage. I love that old man. =P (wonder where Solitayre and Count Brass have gone off too...) --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: drzero7 | Posted: 11/10/2002 7:10:29 PM | Message Detail

Yeah, I don't see the point of catching the foe after that throw for Gen-Fu. Just why not go for juggle hits. Anyway, what the heck is JP? I know HP, MP, and LP, but what's JP? --- ***The Offical announcer of DoAXBV! In Zack's Island*** *********Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball*********

From: stinkymonz | Posted: 11/10/2002 7:20:42 PM | Message Detail

I'm thinking jumping punch.....

From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/10/2002 7:35:31 PM | Message Detail

It's jumping punch. Everybody has a jumping punch counter and a few have a jumping kick counter. if they don't have a jumping kick counter they just trade places. --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/10/2002 8:04:16 PM | Message Detail

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: CountBrass | Posted: 11/10/2002 11:32:09 PM | Message Detail

"Where's Brass and Solitayre X?" I've been following along - I just haven't had anything to add. I was basically waiting for the numbers to come in for Gen Fu and Kasumi parries. I'm still not sure between Gen Fu and Kasumi. I place them both as > Hayabusa, but I'm having trouble deciding which is the best of the two. The computer AI wasn't being helpful at all when I was playtesting either - I was trying to see how well the parries work against strikes and it seemed all the computer wanted to do was milk me with Hi-Counter throws:( Didn't it know I was busy doing research?? Just about all the info is in now, so I might as well make an official vote: Parries > Izuna Drop The Izuna Drop is fantastic damage in ALL punch counter situations, but parries bring a whole different type of play in. Characters with parries can be alot more aggressive with their counter attempts because they get around the basic problem that I have with going for reversals - it's next to impossible to tell the difference between a high and mid strike short of memorizing every damn movelist. There are some rules that help narrow this down and you DO eventually become familiar with at least most characters basic strings, but only with a parry do you get avoid guessing - that's powerful. I'm starting to think parries > advanced counters too(we'll cross that bridge when we get to it). In either case, since the Izuna is all Hayabusa has got, this put him under Gen Fu and Kasumi. Gen Fu's basic counters > Kasumi's basic counters Besides the extra 4 pts damage, Gen Fu provides extra damage all over the place with his "enviromentally friendly" counters. Sure you need walls, or trees, or cliffs, or icicles, or other fun stuff for him to get the most out of his counters, but since every stage features enviroments - enviromental damage is always a factor for the Fu-man. Kasumi has a great MK, but she's a one-trick pony whose strength can be avoided(unless your Jann Lee =P). For the rest of her basic counters she might as well be Helena. One MK is NOT greater than all of Gen Fu's enviromental "interaction". Kasumi's parries > Gen Fu's parries ...as long as a wall isn't involved. In any case, I still give the nod to Kasumi. Her ability to pick and choose her back-turned combo gives her a little more flexability post-parry than Gen does. Also, after juggling her opponent half-way across the planet, you think Kasumi isn't going to eventually find a wall or two herself? All this in mind, I'm going to go with my ranking: Gen Fu > Kasumi > Hayabusa I'm giving the slight edge to Gen Fu in honor of DoA's enviroments. Parry or Hold, they are what give Gen Fu his power...I also like Gen Fu's hat. --- "A harem without Lum is an imperfect dream." - Ataru Morobishi

 

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/10/2002 11:43:03 PM | Message Detail

Yeah, I don't see the point of catching the foe after that throw for Gen-Fu. Just why not go for juggle hits. The point? Damage. Check out the damage. Check out the combos I posted, both with and without the Airthrow-into-Kick. Just try them, or see what you can come up with, with it or without. It's hard to explain... but it kinda exploits a loophole in the combo engine. But the numbers speak for themselves, IMO. That Airthrow-into-Kick finisher is really damaging - the Kick is rated at 30. But in that situation (a juggle), it's the equivalent of using a hit rated 60 points (or at the very least 45 point, if you have the hi-counter .75 revision). I'll try and explain how it works, in terms of damage revision. When that Kick hits for 30 points, there is NO revision - it hits for a full 30, instead of being reduced by 50%, 62%, or 75%. So in order to find a move that's as damaging, you'd need to find a move that was in the 45-60 damage rating range. For example... let's assume your juggle had a 50% revision. If you used that airthrow-kick finisher, it'd be like using a move that was 60 damage. Anyways, I also like the fact that it DOESN'T knock down... enabling you to keep up the pressure. After the kick, do they block, and risk getting tossed sky high AGAIN? Because a 2nd combo will certainly kill them. And if they hold, and Gen Fu tosses - that's overkill. After the kick, they could strike or throw, but because of they were stunned by the hit, Gen Fu has the advantage, and they'll could easily snuffed by a powerful [P+K P]. That's assuming that they're still alive of course... but if they are, they got some pretty hard choices to make, should they get caught by his airthrow-kick finisher. Of course, this is assuming you don't want a knockback for enviro damage. But take note - the power of the airthrow-kick, is usually as damaging anyway. I think only an explosive wall, or cliff fall, consistently beats it. Just try it out, and you'll see the light. And if you still don't like it, here's another non-airthrow juggle to add to the ones before: Using a: - d/b+P+K, u+P, F+K, d+P+K P [100 - knockback 5m] is pretty good too, because it's pretty reliable. --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.

From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/11/2002 12:00:39 AM | Message Detail

But when that Kick hits for 30 points, there is NO revision - it hits for a full 30, instead of being reduced by 50%, 62%, or 75%. So in order to find a move that's as damaging, you'd need to find a move that was in the 45-60 damage rating range. Well wouldn't that be because technically, the air throw ends the combo... ¬_¬ --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/11/2002 12:10:46 AM | Message Detail

Well wouldn't that be because technically, the air throw ends the combo... ¬_¬ Technically... but since the Kick is guaranteed (hah!), the combo didn't end with the airthrow. What was that about needing to call guaranteed combos as combos, and strings as strings again? =P And this time, the game gets it right... it actually registers the Airthrow-kick as part of the combo count and damage. It's funny... the game won't count guaranteed ground-hits or ground-throws as part of a combo, yet it will count the lame fluff "combos" instead. --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.