From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/10/2002 7:37:17 AM | Message Detail

Alright Raigaa, you talk about it alot, so you must have something up your sleeve. When you parry with Kasumi and get your back stun, what is the combo then juggle you follow it up with. Just getting that quick little forward forward punch backstun gives them to you, but then what? and how much damage does it do. I don't use Kasumi to much, so it'll be easier to judge things once I know what Kasumi does on average to somebody. --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: drzero7 | Posted: 11/10/2002 7:56:47 AM | Message Detail

He goes for Parry, ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, Free, u+K "Juggle" Juggles PP f+P, K d+K (Lightweight and downslope) PP f+PP (middleweights, he think) PPPK (middleweights, knocks far) PP F+PK (Garenteed for all) --- ***The Offical announcer of DoAXBV! In Zack's Island*** *********Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball*********

From: mc1287 | Posted: 11/10/2002 8:27:17 AM | Message Detail

IMO, its Kasumi>Hayabusa>Gen Fu. i use the same Parry, ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, Free, u+K "Juggle" followed by either pppk or pp(ubk). were all also overlooking kasumis mid kick launcher which i use a pppk or ppf+pk,d+k for, and thats at least 90 odd damage(loose hold). i havent really played much of Da Fu, ill try him out tonight, but i cant really see him being better than hayabusa, esp considering he only has hi/lo parries, with a crap frame advantage(yeh i know D+P+K p, but u cant launch, can u?) . he does have good knockback on regular mid counters though(we're really starting to overlook them, arent we?). --- "They misunderestimated me." George W. Bush FINALLY on LEGAL steroids!

From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/10/2002 8:43:26 AM | Message Detail

at the moment I think it's Kasumi > Gen Fu > Hayabusa. Gen Fu has great counters and good parries. Hayabusa's got three good punch counters. Thats great and all, But Gen Fu has great environmental effects with his normal stuff, plus if you don't know if they're going to hit high or mid.... don't bother! ^_^ Just parry. then hurt them. Hayabusa's got great punch counters. Even Greater on three stages. But I'm not going to put them above great counters all around + parries. Kasumi though. she's got that launcher and some parries. heh. Gen Fu has better normal counters in my opinion, though Kasumi's launcher is nice. So it all comes down to the parries between those two. in my opinion. --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/10/2002 8:50:16 AM | Message Detail

Now that I got the missus out of the house, I can sit down and get some stats for ya. As I use parries more, I'm starting to pull towards Kasumi > Gen Fu > Hayabusa... but still need numbers. BTW, who thinks Gen Fu's air "catch" rocks? --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.

From: mc1287 | Posted: 11/10/2002 9:02:13 AM | Message Detail

i love his air catch! i think u get a frame advantage too! i normally follow up with P+kpp --- "They misunderestimated me." George W. Bush FINALLY on LEGAL steroids!

From: Kitsune413 | Posted: 11/10/2002 9:05:04 AM | Message Detail

Gen Fu is a hero!!! ^_____^ Ever notice that even after he catches them, his eyes are still pointing upwards? Thats a true gentleman for you. he's not gonna stare at any woman's chest just cause he caught her. or Bass's face. I think that for Bass there should be a special catch animation where Gen Fu topples over him. heh. You wouldn't get the catch but Gen Fu falling ontop of Bass might add a few points of damage. http://www.geocities.com/kitsune49/GenfuHero2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/kitsune49/GenfuHero.jpg anyways, the only thing guaranteed after the catch is just that elbow right? heh. no matter, I prefer the uncertainty of it all. they might counter you, but the chances of totalling them are pretty good. Gen Fu's the man. --- Anyways, Joy is more of a modern girl, she rides a bike and has big hooters (cups his chest) - Yu Suzuki

From: MasterM2xl | Posted: 11/10/2002 11:18:05 AM | Message Detail

lol Gen fu ROX =P --- "Why am I always surrounded by chicks? You got me pretty good." Sol-badguy

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/10/2002 12:58:47 PM | Message Detail

Summary of my previous post, with some numbers: ===HAYABUSA=== Kick holds: 45 / 56 / 67. Punch holds: 60 / 75 / 90. walls: none cliffs: HP (major) MP (major) LP (major) LK (minor) ===KASUMI=== Hold base damage: 43 / 53 / 64 Wall: JP Cliff: MP (minor) JP (major) MK hold launcher: Heavyweight (assume MK counter hold): - d/f d/f+P, PPPK [78, knockback 5m] - d/f d/f+P, PP F+PK, d+P [79+10] - d/f d/f+P, PP f+P, K d+K [98] - d/f d/f+P, PP F+PP [81, knockback 3m] ...yup, these are for EVERYBODY. I'm assuming a counter hold, just because I'm assuming it's the most common one, and I found it tedious trying to get "loose" holds on purpose in sparring. So whatever. So even if you use these numbers, make sure you compare them to everyone else's counter hold damage revision. As you can see... it's every easy to consistently and typically not only match but even surpass Izuna Damage with her MK hold. Average damage is consistently more than 1/3. But again, that's only for her MK hold, only, not her other ones. Parries (from behind + recovery lag of parried move): Heavyweight: - ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, u+K (launch), PPPK [85, knockback 5m] - ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, u+K (launch), PP F+PK, d+P [86+10] Middleweight: - ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, u+K (launch), PP f+PP [87, knockback 3m] - ff+P (backstun), u+P, f+P, u+K (launch), PP f+P, K d+K [101] ...as weight increases, reliability decreases. As you can see, it's VERY EASY to get Izuna-like damage. In fact, it's the other way around - an Izuna MUST be a hi-counter to even match Kasumi's parries. Minuses: - cannot be performed on reaction like a normal hold - not 100% guaranteed - depends on the move parried. But still often enough, and the damage makes up for it, IMO. - cannot be used to "break" a stun Pluses: + Work for both punches and kicks. Izunas are only punches + work on 2 levels. Not only does the IZuna only work for punches, but Hayabusa still has 3 levels to worry about, as opposed to 2. + consistent damage, at more than 1/3 life. IMO, the pluses outweight the minuses. And remember, these are just a bonus - she still has her regular holds as well. ===GEN FU=== hold base damage: 45 / 56 / 67 Walls: MP 5m MK 5m JP 3m Cliffs: HP (major) MP (major) LP (Major) JP (major) HK (minor) MK (major) ...interesting fact - Gen Fu has just about as much cliff fall potential as Hayabusa does, when it comes to punch holds. Parries: Heavyweight: - d+P+K,P [60 - knockback 5m] ...60 is guaranteed. But in all likelihood, you can find yourself getting at least 10 more bonus damage, as the knockback is huge. But in close quarters against Gen Fu... you die. 1/2 life gone: Parry + Wall: (assuming regular wall): Heavyweight: - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), f+PPP [106] ...as always, if there's a wall angled towards Gen Fu's back, you can end with the f+PP P+K instead for a bit more damage. Middlweight: - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), P+K PP [114] - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), d/f+KPP [122] ...as weight increases, reliability decreases - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), F+K, f+PPP [118] And now... about that "awesome" Airthrow I was hinting at: Parry+Wall+Airthrow (assuming regular wall): Heavyweight: - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), f+PP, Airthrow, K [116] Middleweight: - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), P+K f+P, Airthrow, K [117] - d+P+K (wall stun), d/f+P+K (launch), F+K, f+PP, Airthrow, K [128] In other words, against all the weights, Gen Fu can easily get 1/2 life, if he parries you near a wall. As for pluses and minues to parries in general, same as Kasumi's, except it doesn't matter what he parried. Anyway... I think I have enough info to vote. BUt not everyone has checked in yet, and they could bring something new that would drastically change things.

From: Raigaa | Posted: 11/10/2002 1:03:33 PM | Message Detail

Awww... and just for the heck of it. Combine air throw and throw launcher: Middleweights: - qcf+Throw, d/b+P+K, u+P, F+K, f+PP, Airthrow, K [118] ...kind of tricky, but I'm working on it. You can omit the [F+K], so that you can use it on everyone, or if you just want to make it like 3X as reliable. It's 106 damage in that case - still not bad. And this is assuming a NORMAL throw - the damage on a hi-counter throw is just too much... ...I'm even thinking of starting to use NON-guaranteed moves like a [d/b f+P], just to get people to flinch with a hold after a parry or airthrow. And then start to bust out his [qcf+Throw] right after... ...too much damage. --- (Aeon) "The last thing i'll say on the subject is that you cannot block during a freestep backward" Current Team: Anyone but Ryu.